Barbara R. Snyderis president of the Association of American Universities. The Association of American Universities (AAU), Fostering and Protecting Free Speech on Campus, Renew Investments in Vital Scientific Infrastructure, AAU Universities Battle the Opioid Crisis, Progress Toward Achieving Systemic Change, The Strategic Role of a National Organization. We're talking about a lot of evidence. You've done tremendous work on it that is a huge benefit to the Kingdom, not only with your technical biblical scholarship, but with this incredible stuff you've done on miracles. Now, Strobel, whose personal story was told through the Pure Flix feature film, book anddocumentarytitled The Case for Christ, has released The Case for Miracles, a new investigative book that relies on facts, interviews, and studies to further explore spiritual matters. Thank you for being with us. This means that the original measurements were not accurate enough to establish the lengths, and the follow-up that said it grew back are also not enough. Barbara Snyder (Barbara Cummiskey Snyder) - healed from multiple sclerosis The institution that is referenced for the work is Global Medical Research Institute (GMRI) and the documentary about miracles referenced is Send Proof. The point is to first establish that there is some interesting effect there, regardless of the cause, and only after passing that threshold do we get to consider a more in-depth investigation. Both great books that I encourage all of our listeners to get hold of and to digest. It was assumed that Stargardt's disease was the best fit for her symptoms, but she has no family history for this genetic condition. They dont want you to see this Big Tech does its best to limit what news you see. James Fodor suggests, as an example, doing the prayer studies in different languages to help rule out some of the competing effects. Could you imagine a similar claim written about, say, a homeopathic remedy for cancer? Justin: why do you feel sympathetic to the view that what they're finding is evidence for supernatural healing rather than just extraordinary somewhat unexplained events ? But you've written a two volume set over, excess of a 1000 pages on the subject of miracles. We would not believe any medical claim that didn't have these properties, so we are not having too high of a standard -- we are just refusing to lower the standard in these cases. It would seem that these people are constantly dealing with skeptics, and the easiest way to address it would be to get the pre- and post- medical test data rather than a summary by one doctor, after the fact. It involves Barbara Snyder and took place nearly 30 years ago. Patients in the prayer group had less congestive heart failure, fewer cardiac arrests, fewer episodes of pneumonia, were less often intubated and ventilated, and needed less diuretic and antibiotic therapy. The first doctor report is two years after the event (the event in 1972, the doctor visit in 1074)? I am delighted that the board selected Barbara to lead AAU And he said he prays for people here in the U.S., but it doesn't happen. And he said because these precious people that never had a chance to be exposed to God's extravagant love, He works in extravagant ways to let them know. Craig Keener, Michael Shermer & Elijah Stephens, Case Report of gastroparesis healing: 16 years of a chronic syndrome resolved after proximal intercessory prayer, Case report of instantaneous resolution of juvenile macular degeneration blindness after proximal intercessory prayer, Study of the therapeutic effects of proximal intercessory prayer (STEPP) on auditory and visual impairments in rural Mozambique, Delia Knox healed from being paralyzed after 22 years, Sean George comes back after a heart attack, https://guides.library.stonybrook.edu/evidence-based-medicine/levels_of_evidence, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/, https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-moon-does-not-affect-mental-health-emergency-room-study-suggests, first evidence for the accelerating universe, https://seangeorge.com.au/my-story/medical-details/, phenomenon of spontaneous recovery of heart activity, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/04/06/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-1-summary/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/05/10/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-2-littlewoods-law/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/05/24/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-3-georges-argument/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/05/26/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-4-evaluation-premise-1c/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/06/26/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-5-evaluation-of-premise-a4/, evidence that someone was sick at one time, evidence that they were not sick at a later time, sometime between those two points they claimed that they were prayed for (and don't always demonstrate that they actually were prayed), they used xrays to diagnose it originally, which is not the best for soft tissue. My initial thought was that , A physics problem from a practice AP test came to my attention, when my daughter was in AP physics this past spring. or perhaps it resolved in 2 years, and they never checked for a long time, only checking right after the prayer 16 years later. Thu 03 February 2022 I mean I tried to get accounts from all sorts of different cultures. Nine out of ten with prayer is the meaning of replicable, so I don't know what he really is thinking when he says miracles are not replicable. The same thing occurs with UFO claims, homeopathy studies, and psychic abilities. None of us would say that all of those are authentic, but still we're talking about an awful lot of stories. Since this is touted as one of the best, and one of only three papers ever seemingly cited when skeptics ask for evidence of miracles, is not impressive to say the least. Strobel went on to explain that he interviewed skeptics and believers, alike, and included their perspectives in The Case for Miracles. At the end of the project, Strobel said he was shocked to learn that miracles are not only common, but also well-documented. She never quotes her doctors about her condition, and provides no documentation whatsoever -- there is simply nothing to work with. What is that? The latter has more eyewitness testimony than we have for Barbara Snyder. Don't presume what I'll believe, show me evidence of an arm growing back first, then perhaps we'll see -- but I'd need the proper controls. That we all will be ultimately healed if we have trust in Jesus because we'll be with him forever. And even after CPR is stopped, there is an observed phenomenon of spontaneous recovery of heart activity after as much as 15 minutes, and his recovered after 10 minutes. But Barbara Snyder, she had been dying from a severe form of Multiple Sclerosis. You can get a free, one-month trial here. ), This was an instantaneous healing of all of her symptoms and all of her illness to the point where 31 years later she's completely healthy, Strobel said. Prophetic messages from respected leaders & news of how God is moving throughout the world. I made a number of these errors in the episode, and I think it is because 1) the scientific papers (rightly) don't use names and 2) when the stories are told they don't cite their sources well and 3) I'm terrible with names. Is he thinking (a strawman of) 100% of the time? That is the definition of supernatural. And of course, accounts from the west, it was easier to get the medical documentation so there were strengths with a lot of these. And so he's already saying in his ministry the Kingdom is being expressed. It should further be noted that the subjects in the study were not chosen from the random population but from a self-selected group that already believe in the efficacy of the treatment. I mean Grant still prayed for healing all his life. But in some places Like I had a student from India, a doctor of ministry student, who said almost everybody that he prays for in India gets healed. In my opinion this study represents a larger trend that I have discussed before clinical research going backwards in quality after higher quality studies yield negative results. So even when, you know it doesn't happen to all of us. She wanted to be with her family even though there was a war going on. Some initial thoughts Time stamp 4:47 James is right that the evidence on a lot of these cases is really really bad. Do you have a testimony that is medically verified?. Although MS can come in milder forms, Barbara's condition deteriorated quickly. I don't think "I don't know" should be your default position unless that's really where you fall and so what I encourage people to do is read all sides, make an inference to the best explanation and go "this is what i think is most likely the case". And so when she was healed, the first thing she noticed was her feet were flat on the ground. He encountered scores of healings and other claims of the miraculous along the way, but there was one case in particular that truly blew his mind: the case of Barbara Snyder. We only have the stories. After all the investigations and scrutiny of the numerous claims, not one single credible and fully verified healing by God or any other non-existent deity . Each of those people are in the same position as the boy Elijah speaks about and will certainly attribute a God-given miracle to their healing. It's walked though in a 5-part blog series: We keep coming back to the question about how you would test for miracles. University. I hear the theist complaining about how hard it is to test miracles and I find the objection lame. How can I help? There isn't anything that could tie the prayer as the causal element, given that she was most likely prayed for often an we're picking out the one case before a claimed recovery. The protocol also calls for multiple interventions if initial treatments are not effective essentially the subjects receive repeat treatments as long as possible until they report a response. Craig Keener: In Christian circles it's been received really, really well. She actually ended up being stranded in a third country for about eight months before she could get to the U.S., but the Lord did so many miracles along the way and we're grateful for this. Craig Keener: It's my privilege. This one is much like the previous one, but there is no study -- just the stories. Then, on Pentecost Sunday, two of Synder's friends read her letters from those praying for her. You should receieve a confirmation email shortly. She deteriorated over a period of many years, several operations, many hospitalizations, Strobel explained. What problems are you interested in? Chris Gunderson who was born with an incurable disorder called Chronic Pseudo Obstruction Syndrome, which was cured by prayer. At this point anyone with any reasonable familiarity with how to assess the quality of medical studies should see that this is a worthless study. Snyder ended up in hospice care with a no-resuscitation order; she was nearly blind, her hands and body were curled and she had a tube in her throat to help her breath as well as a tube in her stomach to ensure proper nourishment. Strobel said that he has long believed that Jesus performed the miracles described in the Gospels. But at a time when higher education itself faces Nathan: it's like he understands broadly what he should be doing but then that stands in place of him actually doing it it's like as if just finally having a bit of a grasp of how we should reason about the these things.suppose we agree with you now well why is that the best explanation? This is where they burn child witches," and stuff like that. She deteriorated over a period of many years, several operations, many hospitalizations," Strobel explained. But this one, I think, we were also able to communicate something of guts, heart in the midst of suffering. An immediate thought is how many times was he prayed over and nothing happened? of the members of the University Athletic Association are part of the AAU. It's a story of how you met your wife, Medina, and I'm taking I pronounced that correctly. undergraduate and graduate students alike receive a world-class education. It's not [inaudible] a short book. On GMRI's website there is the following request: "Were always looking for new testimonies. What is missing are the controls -- how often does the "treatment" happen and there is no effect, and how often is there an effect but no treatment. At over 2 billion Christians, praying many times, if this was a real effect at the 1% level we'd expect millions of documented cases yearly -- certainly a large enough signal to experimentally verify. Visit Pure Flix for access to thousands of faith and family friendly movies and TV shows. This kind of phrasing is trying to stop people from being skeptical of their claims (and only their claims). In fact, history is full of bizarre coincidences that get downright creepy . Even for much more modest claims than the ones made in the above discussions, randomized-controlled studies are the gold standard. Bizarrely, her calves were inflated and her once-atrophied muscles worked againand that's not all. I mean these were mainstream Evangelical Christians and anyway, some of the critiques, and actually some of the praises from the Christians showed that they hadn't actually read the book either. If there's one thing I hope this film does for people that are inside of the Christian faith is that it makes them confident enough to go pray for sick people in impossible situations because that is a means to knowledge as well. So, we know that at least 450 Christians began praying for her, because they wrote letters saying, 'We're praying for you.. And the third thing she noticed was she was see it with her eyes. It is quite clear that once you allow one miraculous healing in, using evidence of just one person, then one has to let in a whole host of others. I think we could say your relationship with Medine and how you guys, the two of you made it together, counts as one of those major miracles in your life. Craig Keener: Well I tried to get accounts from all over the world. Nathan: I think what we're seeing here are the fruits of apologetics in some ways. Caleb was very nice in pointing out the documentation for the Barbara Snyder case, and correcting me in its reading. his term as board chair this Junewill lead a national search for her Scott Rae: Here, here. Craig Keener: Yeah. As I've said before, the fact that there are no videos of this sort is strong evidence against the veracity of miracles. To contact us or to submit an article, click here. Adapted from Editorial Theme html5up.net | @ajlkn, In the comment thread of my response, Caleb J writes. I had a lot of connections with Africa, different parts of Africa. One can have compelling evidence even when a case could be rendered stronger with even more evidence. From the Send Proof film they admit that they can't publish Bruce Van Natta case because the accurate measurement of the length of intestine needed to verify the result we don't have the technology yet. But she, but it happened. We all don't get a sign or a wonder. James: Keener says simultaneously that there are hundreds of millions of cases but also that none of this can be replicated. I mean not that it was deliberately anti-supernatural, but it was deliberately non-supernatural. Now of course, after six minutes with no oxygen you have irreparable brain damage starting in, but Terese had no brain damage. This male voice coming from the corner of the room where nobody was said, 'Get up my child and walk, Strobel recounted. Craig Keener: Well everybody has a love story. Prayer, in her house, probably occurs even more frequently. And her hands had been curled up so much that every few months they had to uncurl her hands to get the dead skin out. So welcome. But again, it's a sign. That fact alone is strong evidence that miracles are not real. He wasn't praying for healing of his physical vision, but when the Lord healed his mind, he opened his eyes and he could see. We originally met when we were, she was an exchange student and I was doing my PhD in New Testament at Duke. Craig Keener at around 37:00 in the Unbelievable? Now, I know you can read headlines so you know this was a study of proximal intercessory prayer, but the point is even if you assess the details of the study divorced from knowledge of what the intervention is, it should be obvious that this study tells us nothing. Some were tested in persecution. So tell our listeners some of the stories that you uncovered as a result of your research. into our next chapter, said McRobbie, who is also the president of Indiana It also calls into question the motives of God -- God is more concerned to give you a pool table than to cure leukemia in children or heart defects or nearly anything else. So sometimes we don't see the outcome. The conventional wisdom that we hear kind of over and over again is that the prevalence of miraculous activity, is much more the developing world than it is in the west. Further, the world is complex and any given effect can have many different possible causes, especially if we are talking about biological systems. The good news will be preached to the poor. Sean McDowell, Timothy Pickavance, Scott RaeFebruary 27, 2023, Sean McDowell, Scott RaeFebruary 16, 2023, Sean McDowell, Scott RaeFebruary 09, 2023. Keener: what is specific about that data that suggests it isn't just a fluke you know one of those one in a million things that just happens sometimes yeah anomalies occur so it's important to look for an accumulation of anomalies so you don't just have what could be a coincidence. We average between 2 and 3 posts a day. But I heard this one from somebody who worked with Craig Evans, followed up with Barbara Snyder and her doctors and passed this onto Lee Strobel, who followed up on this too. Barbara (Burns) Snyder, age 92, of Elmira, NY, passed away Friday, November 18, 2022 at her home. Or even the most dramatic story I found from somebody that I or my wife knows, but this one was particularly mind blowing to me because Antoinette Malumbay was my mother-in-law and Terese is my sister-in-law. I mean there are, there's lots of Kingdom fortes that we're experiencing now. Has it been confirmed? Craig Keener: Yeah, she came on a fiance visa, which unfortunately took a bit longer than it should have because by the time we finally made up our minds to get together 9/11 happened right when we were getting ready to send the materials in. "Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. You just wonder how legitimate are these miracle claims in the 21st century? Strobel said. 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